James P. Gorman ’87 did not always know he wanted to be a leader in finance. A native of Australia, he earned a BA and law degree from the University of Melbourne before starting a career as an attorney and consultant. 

When he attended Columbia Business School, however, Gorman was given a formal introduction to the world of business. He learned foundational finance and accounting skills that would later serve him in his career, but his intent was never to learn how to be a Wall Street trader or money manager.

“I had a very specific objective, which was to develop the skills that I thought would help me be a good general business person. And the School did that,” he said.

After graduating from CBS, Gorman led a successful career as a consultant with McKinsey & Company, later becoming a senior partner in the firm's financial services group. He went on to work in several senior positions at Merrill Lynch, before leaving to join Morgan Stanley in 2006. There, he was named co-president and eventually became CEO in 2010. 

Today, Gorman serves as Morgan Stanley’s executive chairman, where he leads the company’s board, helps guide the strategic director of the firm, and acts as counsel to current Morgan Stanley CEO Ted Pick and other members of the senior management team. 

Gorman recently spoke with CBS to reflect on his experience at the School and how it shaped his career, and to offer advice to current students and recent graduates.

CBS: How do you spend your time as executive chairman? What has the role been like the past couple of months?

James P. Gorman: It really is a function of how you define it. There is no one model for what executive chairs do. The way I have defined it is to do everything I can to support the CEO. So, when he wants to ask me for advice or guidance, I do that. We meet every two weeks formally to make sure we have a mechanism to bring us together, and I will go anywhere in the world to meet clients or to represent the firm. You are not running the business, but you are helping to maintain our visibility with our key clients, regulators, and governments around the world.

CBS: Can you share what made you decide to pursue a career in finance and how attending Columbia Business School fit in with your professional goals?

Gorman: I was a lawyer when I came to Columbia, so going to business school really introduced me more formally to the business world and gave me the credentials to be employable in the business world rather than as an attorney. Columbia created that opportunity. 

CBS: How do you think the curriculum prepared you for your career?

Gorman: A lot of it is some basic knowledge in finance and accounting, marketing ethics, and conceptual foundations of business management of organizations. It introduced me to all the elements of what makes organizations work, whether they be for profit or not, whether they be countries, companies, or small businesses. I did not go to Columbia to learn how to be a Wall Street trader or to manage money. I had a very specific objective, which was to develop the skills that I thought would help me be a good general business person. And the school did that. 

CBS: What advice would you give to current business students? What kind of skills do you think they should hone if they want to be successful? 

Gorman:  It depends, but I would encourage people not to focus on the career that they're preparing for and more to focus on preparing themselves for any career. If you want to be an investment banker, you need to know how to work your way around spreadsheets and develop strong communication skills and presentation skills. If you want to work in marketing, you need to understand all the five Ps [product, price, promotion, place, and people] of marketing.

CBS: It sounds like the most important thing is to be open minded.

Gorman: Yes. I had no idea I would end up as CEO of a Wall Street firm. I was not planning on it. In fact, when I came out of CBS, I had a bunch of job offers, including for Morgan Stanley, that I turned down. I did not want to go to Wall Street. 

Look for things that you would not naturally gravitate toward. I remember taking a course on public speaking and presenting that was voluntary, and I think there were six of us taking it out of 600. I could not understand why people would not want to become better communicators. 

A lot of people in finance thought marketing was lightweight stuff. I thought that was ridiculous. I mean, they market financial products as well as sell them, but they had a very narrow mindset of what was sort of real business. And a lot of people saw real business as being able to pull together an Excel spreadsheet. I thought real business was the ability to simplify complexity and lead organizations.

CBS: Do you have any advice for recent business school graduates?

Gorman: Don’t be too careerist, and don’t focus too much on money. Most people coming out of business school focus way too much on how much they are going to get paid in their first couple of years, but it is not material to your life. Apart from the ability to consume and live nicely, at what point does money stop being that relevant? For most of the students, I would advise them to do the job they are paid to do very well. By that, I mean too often people are trying to figure out how to get the next job. They want feedback. After two weeks, what could you get feedback on? 

People will see you; they will give you more responsibility and more opportunity for moving ahead. If you keep asking for more responsibility, you become a pain.

CBS: What is the most important lesson you have learned during your career?

Gorman: I have always approached things — whether they are difficult or easy, whether they are complex or simple, boring, or galvanizing — as part of the day's work. I find too often that people want all the sexy stuff all the time. That is not real life. I mean, at the end of the day, you have got to take out the garbage. You might have had a great meal, but you have still got to wash the dishes. It is boring, but you have got to do it. And I think embracing all parts of the job is necessary, just as is in life. Life does not come with a neat little package around it, nor does work, and we all do boring stuff.

That is part and parcel of the journey, and I have been very focused on the journey and growth. Forget the more immediate satisfaction, whether it be compensation or promotion or praise or whatever. Just do your job you are paid to do very well, and you are much more likely to be recognized and succeed.

 

Watch highlights from James P. Gorman’s recent appearance at CBS: